What truck/suv should I buy?

"It's a "Porch-uh"" (ikazuchi) 10/14/2016 at 13:08 • Filed to: Trucks

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So I’m selling my garage queen E39 M5, a decision I have been told many times that I will regret (but it’s too nice to mod and I worry about an expensive repair every time I fire it up), and making room for a “fun” vehicle (or maybe vehicles). One of the directions I’m strongly considering is an off-road rig that I can load the family into and go exploring. What should I get?

I haven’t really been much of an off-road guy and want to make an informed decision on something I might be dumping many thousands of dollars into. I’ve previously owned a ‘98 K1500 (my college bro-truck) and an ‘07 Tahoe (family hauler/tow rig) but never really did any modifications (outside a 3" body lift and wheels/tires on the K1500) or serious off-roading. Not that this new vehicle will do anything “super serious” (I don’t want a rock crawler or fire-breathing hill-climber).

I’m looking to build (or purchase if I can find one done right) an overland rig. Something I can drive a few hundred miles (without wanting to drive it into oncoming traffic after 20 minutes), take off into the wilderness, do some “intermediate” rock crawling (I don’t know what that really means either), then drive home. Hopefully without breaking something. I need to get the family in and out easily, so it should have 4 doors and room for all our crap in the back (so SUV-style).

This will be a 3rd vehicle, and while the M5 sale will leave me with some money in the bank, I don’t want to blow it all on something that will be sitting for most of the year. And while I’m looking for cheap, used vehicles, I want to take total cost of ownership into consideration. So I’m willing to pay a bit more for something I have to mod less, will last longer, has cheaper replacement parts, great aftermarket support, etc, etc. My initial budget (again, with some wiggle room for the right truck) for something un-modified (but I wouldn’t turn away a truck with the right mods done) is around $4000.

I can turn a wrench, so I also want to evaluate how easy it is to work on (both mod and repair). The older models will (hopefully) be simpler to deal with, but I have to balance that against any amenities that would be nice to have.

After I caught up on Roadkill, I got into Dirt Every Day and watched Fred find a few cheap trucks which I hadn’t considered before. Here’s my current list of options. Please feel free to rip it apart, re-educate me, and add to it as you see fit.

Jeep Cherokee XJ

In my limited opinion, probably the king of cheap off-roaders. Cheap, stout engine/transmission, and robust aftermarket support. In SoCal I see a mix of these on Craigslist, ranging from $1500 to $6000 in varying ranges of modification, miles, and condition.

Toyota Land Cruiser (J80)

I hadn’t thought of this one until Fred picked one up for the 2015 Cheap Truck Challenge. A bit bigger and nicer inside than the XJ, but a bit more expensive, and I would guess that aftermarket support is not as good (though I see plenty of lift kits and other parts available). I see these going for $3-8K, mostly unmodified. Toyota trucks have a habit of being extremely well-built, but I don’t know if the J80 has any particular issues I should be wary of. All the fancy bits that increase comfort are also just more things that can break.

Toyota 4Runner (2nd or 3rd gen)  

I have some friends with these and they’ve had some problems, but nothing major. I’m not sure how the V6 compares to the I6 in the Land Cruiser and how the suspension design differs between the two.

I see 2nd gen models starting around $2000, and 3rd gen about $2500. Each then going up around $5-6K for a lower mileage example. The 1st gen models seem to be asking a premium. Are they that good?

Jeep Grand Cherokee (1993-1998)

I put the Grand Cherokee on par with the Land Cruiser, except not as well-built. It will be a nicer place to spend a long trip in compared to the XJ, as long as the interior has held up okay. Aftermarket support seems to be right up close to the XJ.

These next ones I know less and less about but are on my research list.

Nissan Pathfinder (1st or 2nd gen) - Good prices ($1500-$6000), and seems like there are parts available, but I don’t know their reputation. Will I be rebuilding the motor several times?

Nissan Xterra - A bit more expensive than the Pathfinder (mostly due to them being newer). Also a bit smaller than the Pathfinder. Which Nissan is better off-road?

Mistubishi Montero (2nd gen) - These look to have decent approach angles and ground clearance out of the box. The SR package has a locking rear diff. Assuming they have relative poor aftermarket support and I have no idea how stout the components are. I’m also guessing that repairs will be a bit more costly due to the lack of parts.

So what do you think? Where am I wrong? What should I be looking at?

HammerheadFistpunch > It's a "Porch-uh" 10/14/2016 at 13:14

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What kinds of trails do you think you will be doing? How long unsupported to do plan to be? How handy are you for fixing your own stuff?

OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars > It's a "Porch-uh" 10/14/2016 at 13:15

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Gx470, 4th Gen 4Runner, or Tacoma.

It's a "Porch-uh" > HammerheadFistpunch 10/14/2016 at 13:27

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That’s what I’m really not sure about, not having been out much. I’d expect mostly trails, with some “medium” obstacles. I’m guessing only 2-3 days out in the wilderness max.

I’m pretty handy (do most of my own work and build race cars), but I also don’t want to have to worry about bring a spare everything and full tool box on each trip.

It's a "Porch-uh" > OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars 10/14/2016 at 13:30

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Is the GX basically a Land Cruiser or more 4Runner sized? I’m surprised how cheap they are (but I’m not seeing many locally).

Why the 4th gen 4Runner over the earlier models?

Decent Tacos are pricey. Plus, I’d have to add a camper shell to the back.

OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars > It's a "Porch-uh" 10/14/2016 at 13:33

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Gx is 4runner sized with a 2Uz and the 4th gen 4runner was available with a 2UZ as well. Only 4runner with a V8. Also they are great trucks. I understand the Taco problem

InfinityAero > It's a "Porch-uh" 10/14/2016 at 13:34

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The Pathfinder and first gen Xterras share the repair manual, and are very close cousins.

I love my Xterra; got me through 24" of snow last year, tow capacity up to 5000lb, very agile for a tall truck. If you’re going to get one, I’d recommend going with a 2000-2002 V6 SE, which will give you the limited slip, 16" wheels, 180HP V6, fog lights, roof rack, 4X4 with Low, and a manual was available. I’ve heard more negative feedback on the reliability of the 2003+ models, after they switched the pumpkin and engine (detuned 3.5L from Altima/Maxima). I picked up my 2002 5-speed SE with 155K miles for $3500 last year. Had to replace the radiator right off the bat, but otherwise it’s just been maintenance (tires, oil/manual transmission fluid changes, new spark plugs, etc...)

Wobbles the Mind > It's a "Porch-uh" 10/14/2016 at 13:36

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I’m so upset that you’d get rid of an E39 M5 for something you’ll put more money into than it costs to purchase and beat up going 3 mph using up 8 gallons of fuel to go no where in particular. Even more so when you say it’s a garage queen and too nice to mod...it sounds nice!

It's a "Porch-uh" > Wobbles the Mind 10/14/2016 at 13:42

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Buy it from me! I’ll give you an Oppo discount.  http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/cto/5777221210.html

Yeah, I wish I could justify keeping it and get a trail rig, but I just don’t use it enough to keep it and I feel bad letting it sit most of the time. It needs to go to somebody who will drive it more often.

HammerheadFistpunch > It's a "Porch-uh" 10/14/2016 at 13:46

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80 series make good weekend warrior rigs, as they are dead reliable (assuming its been somewhat taken care of). The reason I ask about turning a wrench (which I realized you mention) is that owning an XJ or 80 will be a lot more financially sustainable if you can do some basic or moderate work. Where are you again? I’m just trying to get my head around “medium” difficulty. Are we talking about “I’ll probably need lockers and big tires” level?

osucycler > It's a "Porch-uh" 10/14/2016 at 13:55

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The GX 470 is the re-badged Toyota Prado in other markets: Great vehicle to build up in all sort of meaningful overland ways.

http://www.autotrader.com/car-news/the-lexus-gx-had-a-manual-transmission-shift-lever-257947

The Land Cruisers are almost factory built to overland and 3rd party support is wide and varied.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/  

4Runners can be built to tackle anything and while not a factory capable as a Land Cruiser can be built to tackle any adventure.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/index.php

rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S > It's a "Porch-uh" 10/14/2016 at 13:59

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OMG!

Where are you and what do you want for your M5? I’ve regretted selling my E39 M5 ever since I did. Hopefully this question won’t cause you to rethink your idea (although, frankly, it should). :)

I have an FJ80 with about 206k miles (mins is an LX450). The only thing wrong with it is that the front seat leather (which was thin to begin with) has worn through. I paid $5k for mine earlier in the year. It’s driven every day to wineries by a friend up in Napa. They are bulletproof. I put an OME lift kit on mine and plan to put some additional off-roading style items as soon as I have the time to deal with it.

I wanted an FJ60 but those are much more money for a vehicle that is better looking (at least to me) but tend to have worse rust problems. I’m happy that I ended up with the FJ80 instead.

rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S > rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S 10/14/2016 at 14:01

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To follow up on the above, I saw the CL link in another ad. Yours is my favorite color (mine was silver), and the same color as the 1:18 E39 M5 I have on my desk.

And the best year.

Dammit.

To argue against my own interest, you should really consider submitting it to BAT. 2003 M5s do very well there.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > It's a "Porch-uh" 10/14/2016 at 14:05

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[clicks link]

[grabs at heart] Nope, still poor

adamftw > It's a "Porch-uh" 10/14/2016 at 14:10

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XJs and ZJs are too small. If you go Jeep, go WJ (99-04) look for an “Overland” edition (lol). High Output V8 and the beautiful Quadra-Drive 4x4 system.

2nd gen Montys are awesome. I just couldn’t find one around me, look for a SR with the rear locker for sure. Only worry on them is the timing belt service but they are very stout trucks.

Obv, Toyotas are great but you pay the Toyota tax.

If you go Nissan, go 2nd gen Xterra with the off-road or Pro-4X (newer trucks) package.

OH WAIT- You said you wanted a 3rd vehicle, can turn a wrench, want space and want it all done for under $4000??

LOOK NO FURTHER, MY DEAR FRIEND.

Discos can be had for under $2000 very often. They are more reliable than you think, and parts are plenty.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > It's a "Porch-uh" 10/14/2016 at 14:17

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Clearly what you need is a Bowler Wildcat LS3 V8 Defender...

http://www.thewildcatgroup.com/v8defender/

hedbutter > It's a "Porch-uh" 10/14/2016 at 14:35

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If people could stop talking about buying XJs and making me miss the two i had, that’d be great.

And for the XJs, they were relatively easy to work on in my opinion and theres a ton of aftermarket for them.

RPM esq. > It's a "Porch-uh" 10/14/2016 at 14:44

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I’d sell you my FJ80 at a reasonable price. It’s not perfect cosmetically but it’s tough and well maintained (by me anyway, although frankly not terribly well by the previous owner, but I’ve made up for their laxity) with several common failure points addressed, and a couple of basic upgrades. Except that the ONE thing that doesn’t work is the A/C, which is fine with me in Washington but might be a problem for you in San Diego!

MUSASHI66 > It's a "Porch-uh" 10/14/2016 at 14:47

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Damn....not my favorite color combo for those, but still drool-worthy. Always was my favorite BMW

Justino6969 > It's a "Porch-uh" 10/14/2016 at 14:56

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XJ all the way. Couldn’t be happier with mine. Part are cheap and it’s super easy to work on. For instance, I just put in a new thermostat that cost a whopping $1.40 from roackauto.

RPM esq. > OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars 10/14/2016 at 14:58

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I’m shopping for a 4th Gen 4Runner right now, hadn’t thought of the Gx470...any reason to prefer the 4.7 V8 over the 4.0 6 if I don’t tow?

Tristan > It's a "Porch-uh" 10/14/2016 at 15:45

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Pedantic Jeep guy warning:

You pictured a WJ (1999-2004). Incidentally, the WJ gets my vote. It has a lot of small issues that are easily attended to if you can wrench, but the overall bones are amazing. You get Quadracoil suspension with a cool 3-link rear, solid axles, and if you spring for the Overland (which is what I have) you get skid plates, rocker sliders, a High Output 4.7 V8 and Quadradrive II featuring automatic 4wd and Vari-Lock differentials. I actually have a comprehensive checklist I made for all the things to look at on WJs that I can send your way if you decide to shop for one.

As for the XJ, it’s much more cramped inside, but waaaaaaay easier to work on than the WJ. The XJ is basically made out of Legos, the aftermarket makes everything you could ever want for them and parts are everywhere. I find the 4.0 to be an utterly gutless, thirsty pig of an engine with an archaic reverse-flow head, but I’m sure to get flamed for talking ill of the legendary 4.0. The plus side of the 4.0 is it’s virtually unkillable. I’ve had mine for 14 years, it’s overheated and puked coolant more times than I can count, it’s been bounced off the rev limiter a LOT, it’s been run with zero oil in it, and it keeps going. Another plus with the XJ is you can get one with a manual. I know, people will chime in and praise the slushbox saying it’s the king of offroad, but the important thing to note it that they are pathological liars and they’re trying to compensate for the fact that they’re jealous of real men (and women) who wheel with manual transmissions.

OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars > RPM esq. 10/14/2016 at 16:18

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It’s one of my favorite engines ever. Based off of the 1Uz in the Ls400 but with a Cast Iron block. It’s extremely smooth and sounds amazing.

RPM esq. > OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars 10/14/2016 at 16:21

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Other than it being your favorite, though: like, are there mechanical or reliability reasons?

It's a "Porch-uh" > HammerheadFistpunch 10/14/2016 at 17:08

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We’re in San Diego, but plan on taking trips to NorCal, Oregon, Washington, Utah, Nevada, Arizona, and maybe Idaho along the way.

I like to tinker and build (a reason I’m selling the M5, don’t want to mess with it) so someday I might put in lockers (if it doesn’t already have them) even though I might not need them. I would prefer over-built to under. I plan on doing most of the work myself.

It's a "Porch-uh" > rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S 10/14/2016 at 17:13

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I’m in San Diego - http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/cto/5777221210.html

I know I’ll miss this car, but I don’t have the space/money to have a warehouse full of cars and drive a different one each day. I tend to go through cars every few years. My kids seem to think it’s normal to crank through vehicles like we do.

I’ve been noticing that with the earlier Toyotas. They seem to demand a premium.

It's a "Porch-uh" > rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S 10/14/2016 at 17:16

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I thought about BAT, but I’m not in a hurry to sell and the other ones I’ve seen recently seen to have gone cheaper than I’m willing to go. Maybe next month I’ll change my mind and try them out.

It's a "Porch-uh" > Tristan 10/14/2016 at 17:20

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Sorry! I had to go look up the WJ but (please don’t hurt me) I still can’t tell the difference between the older ones and newer ones.

Appreciate the info on the WJ. I’ll check those out as well.

It's a "Porch-uh" > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 10/14/2016 at 17:22

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I was thinking Nemesis, but no room in the back and only 2-door.

HammerheadFistpunch > It's a "Porch-uh" 10/14/2016 at 17:28

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For the money? I would say 4runner. It will be easier on the wallet to run and maintain. the aftermarket is huge and the parts are lighter weight. Plus a 3rd gen 4runner with 31 inch tires and a 2 inch lift will go MANY places. the 80 series is pimp (im biased) but 11 mpg isn’t and if you plan on doing a lot of distance work I would steer you that way.

Tristan > It's a "Porch-uh" 10/14/2016 at 17:32

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WJ<—->ZJ

The WJ looks like a ZJ that was stung by a bee.

rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S > It's a "Porch-uh" 10/14/2016 at 17:38

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Funny - you are speaking my language. I’ve got way too many cars now, and I’ve been thinking about getting down to 2-3 and just churning them every couple of years. You can still enjoy all the cars you always wanted in that way, just in series.

rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S > It's a "Porch-uh" 10/14/2016 at 17:40

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Did you see this one that just sold on the 12th? It had two things that would have kept me at bay:

(1) Awful red seats.

(2) More importantly, performance center history.

Sure it had lower mileage but it went higher than I thought it would.

http://bringatrailer.com/listing/2003-bmw-m5-3/

OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars > RPM esq. 10/14/2016 at 18:01

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Well it’s based off the 1UZ which is indestructible in the Ls400. It’s an interference engine with a timing belt for the V8 while the V6 is a chain so make sure your timing belt is done but the way it delivers power is just better. More torque, mere horsepower, and it delivers it like a V8

David Tracy > It's a "Porch-uh" 10/14/2016 at 18:04

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Don’t buy a used Grand Cherokee. ZJs have a terrible rear axle and weak transmissions (though I really like how they drive). WJs are a bit better, but they’re still a hassle to maintain for a number of reasons that aren’t worth mentioning (electrical issues, so-so trannies, interior trim, etc....).

I’d look at 4Runners and XJs. The XJ is lighter, roomier for its size (though the rear door openings can be hard to squeeze through), feels quicker (it has 190hp and weighs only 3100lbs), and is superior off-road.

But the 4Runner’s interior is a nicer place to spend time. The ride is a bit better, and the build quality is more than a bit better.

Both will last you until the end of time, though I suspect you’d have to spend a bit more time wrenching on the XJ (but less money, as parts for it are hilariously cheap).

It's a "Porch-uh" > David Tracy 10/14/2016 at 19:14

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Thanks for the info! Sounds like XJs are the fox body mustangs of off-roading: parts a plenty, cheap, and easy to mix and match.

It's a "Porch-uh" > rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S 10/14/2016 at 19:18

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I see cars under 50K miles going for over $30K, but you’re right, not many people would like the idea of their car being flogged hard in the past. It was basically a track day car for a bit.

awmaster10 > It's a "Porch-uh" 11/27/2016 at 09:49

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Little late to the party, but figured id chime in. Dont count out the r50 platform Pathfinder. Much more comfortable than most of your options, powerful and smooth vq35 engine with good aftermarket support and cheap parts because that engine is in quite literally 20 nissan vehicles. It is unibody, but has a very strong subframe and isnt on a regular car platform at all. Power goes to the rear wheels, with a low range transfer case and center locking diff. Rear diff is stout, some have LSDs (Mine does), and its a solid rear axle independent front just like a 4runner.

Heres mine. Getting a 2 inch suspension lift, replacing blown shocks all around, then getting larger tires, and then my build will be complete. Not a single reliability issue yet, and so much nicer to drive (On the pavement, high speed off road) than my old 3rd gen 4runner: